"I am the Vine"
Pray for our leaders
Submitted by Charla on Tue, 2008-11-11 02:51.
Doctrine | Politics
We should pray for Obama's protection and that of his family, both physical and spiritual.
We should pray that Obama's heart be turned towards righteousness and justice. Proverbs 21:1-3
Personally, I believe Obama is a very proud man, and not just proud, but arrogant. Scripture repeatedly says that God will humble the proud: Isaiah 2:11, Proverbs 3:34, Proverbs 16:18. I do pray that God will humble Obama in His way and timing.
We should pray for God to surround Obama with wise and Godly counsel. Proverbs 13:20, Proverbs 24:6
No matter who is in authority, we are told by Paul in 1 Timothy 2:1-5 to pray for our leaders.
1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
I confess that I have not done my part to pray for our leaders, be it President Bush or the president-elect. I have opined my disgust at their actions or beliefs. I do not think highly of Obama and am greatly disappointed that the majority of Americans think this man can fix the woes of our country.
Nevertheless, Obama will be our president soon and he needs our prayers now. He is a man with a wife and two small girls. I would not dare wish harm to him, and would be deeply saddened for his family if he were assassinated. I would never wish for his girls to grow up without their daddy, no matter what his philosophies are.
1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts.
3 To do righteousness and justice Is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.
It may be that we pray and never personally see the answers to our prayers for this man. But God is sovereign, and He's told us to pray for our leaders. Whether it's just good exercise for us to do so and we never see the benefit, or God does change Obama's heart and philosophies and he governs (not rules or reigns) with God's righteousness, either result has no bearing on what we are told to do.
According to what he's campaigned on and what he plans on doing after the inauguration, Obama may very well lead our country down into a pit of which we may never get out. And while we are to judge fools and not be in company with them, we are still told to pray for our leaders - whether they be fools or wise - whether they be evil or good - whether we really want to or not.
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And while we're at it, let's pray that the church will wake up in America and get a clue. Perhaps God orchestrated that Obama be elected so that the Christians will get up off their sofas and away from their tvs and the internet, the pursuit of pleasure and comfort, and will fall on their faces and start praying, which is what they should have been doing all along.
...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Message from our pastor
Submitted by Charla on Tue, 2008-11-11 12:01.
I did not give credit where credit is due here. The majority of this message (at least the points of prayer) was given by our pastor at VWC over the weekend.
He gave this message to over 5,000 during the services, to a diverse congregation from over 100 nations. In all likelihood, the majority of these probably voted for Obama, as evidenced by their applause when pastor talked about Obama being elected.
Our pastor gave this message with much trepidation and caution, not wanting to incite anger or offense, and I dare say he treaded that fine line very well. He was able to point out what Obama believed by Obama's very words and how those beliefs differed from God's.
So while you may continue to slam VWC and big megachurches in general, and while I myself still have my opinions and reservations as to what I have seen personally there, I believe my pastor is worth a listen to on this point. I've heard many messages the past 7 years from him, and this is one of the most balanced and Biblically correct I have heard, at least IMHO.
Hate sin not sinner
Submitted by Wayne on Tue, 2008-11-11 12:31.
In all likelihood, the majority of these probably voted for Obama, as evidenced by their applause when pastor talked about Obama being elected.
This is good evidence of what's wrong with the church today.
So while you may continue to slam VWC and big megachurches in general...
In my defense, in the link given, I did not slam megachurches in general. However, I'm happy to do so now: consider them hereby "slammed". 
As for VWC or any other church, pastor, group, or individual, I'm not one to toss the baby out with the bathwater. As a lot, pastors may set themselves up as idols, really screw up the interpretation of Scripture, or even prey on the innocent, but these are all merely individual sins. I'm pleased to hate sin, as this is obedient, but hating sin must not be conflated with hating the sinner, be he a pastor or a whole congregation of sinners. (Also note that generalizations need not apply to the next instance/individual. Basic statistics and logic.)
I agree with Charla. VWC may have its issues--most churches today do--but this doesn't mean its pastor isn't a generally Godly man or that he cannot utter profound truths. If the Lord can speak through an a$$--well, you get the point.
Likewise for our leaders. Just because "W" did all kinds of illegal things or has no clue what Christian government is to be, this does not necessarily mean he's not a generally Godly man. It would seem his personal, moral life is rather Godly, even if his public, Presidential life is not so much (although easily arguably more so than President-elect Osama's will be). And even though President-elect Osama will very likely commit all kinds of sinful horrors as "leader of the free [sic] world", it doesn't mean he may not occasionally do the right, Godly thing. When he does obey his Maker, even if only by accident, God is to be praised! And when he sins against God and country, God is again to be praised--not for his sins but for His steadfast faithfulness. (Please note the particular capitalization when you interpret the pronouns there.)
Amen! (and Reagan's wisdom)
Amen and amen!
On a tangential note:
I am reminded of Reagan's words: "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."