Don't dress like whores
Submitted by Wayne on Wed, 2008-07-09 10:28.
Holiness
Doug Apple gives good advice to young women and teen girls. Doug talks about how dressing to attract men's attention really only gets them interested in a woman's body parts, not the woman herself. Surely, this is not the kind of attention she really wants. To be more frank than Doug: Ladies, don't dress like whores unless you want to be treated like whores.
Christian girls and women enjoy blaming men for lusting, but duck their own culpability in the willful temptations they present to men. I would never suggest any less responsibility on the part of the lusting men, but this has nothing to do with women's sinful intent--conscious or otherwise--to inflame men's desires. By analogy, a pedestrian may truly have the legal right-of-way, but stepping into the street in front of an oncoming bus is just stupid.
Developing girls certainly should not be ashamed of their budding femininity, but neither should they be flaunting their wiles as wares. You don't need to hide behind baggy clothing, of course, but you don't need to be baring your midriffs, wearing short shorts, tank tops, skin-tight clothing, or other such clothes designed solely to provoke a hormonal reaction. If you are unsure if your dress is appropriate, ask your father if he'd be okay with you being in proximity to a lusty, dirty, old man while you're wearing that clothing (or a horny, teenage boy, or a sexual predator, etc.). If your father disapproves, then your attire is a recipe for lust.
Aging women stupidly trying to recapture their youth by dressing in tight clothing or baring tantalizing parts--well, these women just look ridiculous, desperate, easy. A woman of any age who shows off her body as if it were a thing to be used and abused, sans intimate soul-and-spirit marriage, may eventually reap just what she sows. In case I'm not being clear enough... If you dress to entice sexually, you are all but asking to be raped. Not that I excuse rape for any reason, but you lose the ethical right to complain when you invite it. If another analogy will help: if you provoke a violent confrontation ending in a defensive homicide (i.e., you killed to protect yourself), you will have lost your legal innocence and are guilty of murder because you provoked it. Likewise, if you invite rape by inflaming lusts--independent of the rapist's guilt--you become guilty before God.
A lady's identity is not to be tied up merely in the sum of her body parts. Were she the only person in all of history, our Lord would still have sent His Son to die a brutal death in order to save her from sin. She is worth that much. Each woman and girl is precious to the Lord; He wants her as His eventual bride. Don't cheapen such immense value by defining your worth by men's lusts.
Parents of girls, don't you dare destroy God's little girls by teaching or even allowing them to be defined so destructively; you will answer for such a crime. Girls, be patient and wait for the Lord to lead you and your future husband together. Trust that He will ignite the passion between you when the time is right; then you can share all of yourself with him. Lastly, men, grow up and control your lust, limiting it to your wife.
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I’m going to agree and
Submitted by Anthony (not verified) on Wed, 2008-07-09 15:28.
I’m going to agree and disagree with you on this one, Wayne.
Agreement first: yes, if a girl is actively choosing to flaunt her wares and bases a relationship on physical attraction alone then she gets what she deserves – and so does the guy. Unfortunately, Darwin usually rewards such behavior long enough for such folks to reproduce…but I digress. We agree on the societal frustrations of that, I think.
Nothing ever justifies forcing sex on a female, whether she’s dressed provocatively or not. One man’s "appropriate" is another man’s "slutty."
Segue to the disagreement.
The problem is that you put the responsibility for the guy’s reaction on the woman. Not just any guy either – ALL guys. The logical extension of this thinking is that a girl or woman would have to consider the possible subjective, lust-filled reaction of every man they might encounter during the day before dressing themselves. I think you know this because you allude to “men’s lust†(they own the subjective feeling) and use phrases like “to be raped†and “to be defined†– implying women are the objects of action by others, not the initiators of the actions.
A professionally-dressed business woman who happens to be pretty should not have to wear loose-fitting sweats and pass on the makeup because the other men in the office cannot control their thought life. My daughters, any of the three of them, should not be inhibited from wearing shorts and a tank top on a hot, muggy day because some creep at the playground likes to look at legs and shoulders. I like it when my wife makes herself up when we go out and I try to do the same for her. Note that none of these situations involves actively dressing like a whore but they all involve male sexual perceptions of a woman. Those perceptions not only change with each man she encounters but also the state of mind within each man at any given time.
As an aside, I’d rather my own wife dress in a nice pair of jeans, tank top and flip-flops (standard evening attire in the Florida panhandle) than in the 1830’s garb of the modest FLDS women in Texas – however biblically modest they appear.
Reality and motivation
Submitted by Wayne on Wed, 2008-07-09 17:23.
Nothing ever justifies forcing sex on a female, whether she’s dressed provocatively or not.
...
The problem is that you put the responsibility for the guy’s reaction on the woman. Not just any guy either – ALL guys.
Just because she's culpable doesn't mean his actions are justified; that's a logical failure. I'll again refer to the bus analogy. Step in front of a bus, and you die. Yes, the bus [driver] is at fault, because the pedestrian has the legal right of way. On the other hand, it's a natural consequence, and the pedestrian is an idiot for testing it. In other words, the man is responsible for his actions, but the woman is responsible for failing to recognize easily predictable consequences to her choices. It's a well established fact that men lust, and they don't need much of an impetus to do so. Any woman who attempts to deny this fact is an idiot and will suffer the natural consequences of her choice to deny reality. The man is responsible for his actions, and the woman is responsible for hers, too--in this case, she's responsible for her denial of reality and only a similar fool would deny her portion of culpability. As briefly as I can state it: it's not one person's fault or the other, but both. This either-or nonsense is a logical fallacy common to today's culture. In the case of "provoked" rape, both are culpable, though admittedly to varying degrees (unless you consider that a sin is a sin is a sin, but that's another can of worms).
A professionally-dressed business woman...
My daughters...
I like it when my wife...
These examples are too deficient of information to pass judgment. The heart of the matter is just that, the woman's/girl's heart. Only the Lord knows for sure, unless the woman can be honest with herself (I believe this self-honesty is a very rare quality today). Each woman's motivations must be thoroughly understood to truly know how she arrived at her choice of dress. (Of course, combined with this is the aforementioned acceptance of reality, insofar as this is reasonable for her age/wisdom/etc.) In short, it's not about the rules of dress, per se, but about the condition of the heart. What is sinful for one woman (whose identity is wrapped up in her attractiveness) may not be for another (who has no deep-set need or desire to be affirmed by others' lusts).
To recap:
- Check motives.
- Accept reality (natural consequences).
I hope this helps clarify things.
Sometimes it doesn't matter
Submitted by Charla on Thu, 2008-07-10 00:34.
"If you are unsure if your dress is appropriate, ask your father if he'd be okay with you being in proximity to a lusty, dirty, old man while you're wearing that clothing (or a horny, teenage boy, or a sexual predator, etc.). If your father disapproves, then your attire is a recipe for lust."
Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what the girls wears. It didn't matter to the lusty, dirty old man when I was 6. It also didn't matter to the horny driver looking to pick up any piece of female he could find when I was 14. Luckily by 14 I could run and hide. At 6, I didn't know any better.
Teach your kids and teach them when they are young.
And what girl is going to ask her dad for the above-mentioned opinion? She wants to get noticed by the boys, to find her "prince in shining armor." Daddy is her king, not her prince. Only a father and daughter who have a healthy, respectful relationship would entertain such questions and discussions. But I fear the number of those with such relationships are few and far between. Hopefully with God's help, my husband will have such relationships with our two girls.
Even so, he will probably still be meeting their dates at the front door with his Sig in plain view, tucked into his waistline. 
Evil sucks
Submitted by Wayne on Thu, 2008-07-10 07:39.
Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what the girls wears.
A Christian "dress code" certainly won't guarantee a prevention of evil. Some men (and women) choose to do evil. Period. (I wish God would grant me the authority and power to line 'em all up and brutally slay 'em, but I doubt this will happen. I have no doubt His justice will be served, though, and they will get what they deserve.) This is a fallen world, thanks to us. We have seen to it that it's filled with all sorts of evil, and the innocent are its victims. The only hope is a personal relationship with the Lord, Jesus. Thankfully, He can take whatever evil happens to us and use it for His purposes in the long run (not that this justifies the evil in any way). He didn't tell us we wouldn't suffer from evil--in fact, He said the opposite--but He did promise to heal us, guide us, and love us unconditionally.
Teach your kids and teach them when they are young.
Amen!
And what girl is going to ask her dad for the above-mentioned opinion? She wants to get noticed by the boys, to find her "prince in shining armor."
I believe courtship is much more in line with Biblical principles than dating or other means of looking for a prince (or princess). As it's a God-led partnership between parents and child, success--finding that prince and not a toad--is much more likely. When a girl knows her father (and mother, too) is helping her find her prince, and they work together prayerfully to do so, she can relax and not be "on the prowl" for him.
Daddy is her king, not her prince. Only a father and daughter who have a healthy, respectful relationship would entertain such questions and discussions. But I fear the number of those with such relationships are few and far between. Hopefully with God's help, my husband will have such relationships with our two girls.
True on all counts. Daddy is her king, but also her model for her eventual prince. Daddy would do well to set the bar high by living up to very high standards for himself. After all, God's standard for us is very high indeed. This will help her expect a great deal from her future prince, too, as she Biblically should. (For completeness, note there are high, Biblical standards for her, too, and daddy is responsible for guiding her growth thus.)
Sadly, you're right in that such healthy father-daughter relationships are few and far between. This doesn't change what's right, of course, but it shows us how far from righteousness we have fallen. I urge men to be good fathers, and I urge those who are at least minimally mature to mentor other men to do likewise. While Jesus is the ultimate model for us, Paul also held himself up (by the power of Jesus and in His name) as a model to be mimicked. Likewise, it is good for men to look to other men who are suitably Biblical examples, all the while looking toward Jesus. Lasting cultural change will only happen in this manner: salvation and righteous obedience spread through Godly discipleship.
Even so, he will probably still be meeting their dates at the front door with his Sig in plain view, tucked into his waistline.
Nothing against Sigs, although they're not my favorite, but a 12-gauge shotgun makes a much bigger impression. Just don't tuck it into your waistline! (Contrary to the all-knowing firearms experts in Hollywood, tucking any firearm into your waistline sans holster is colossally stupid.)
You're right
Submitted by Charla on Thu, 2008-07-10 08:41.
Yeah, you're right. Evil does suck. But, I can talk about it openly thanks to God. And you're right about the courtship idea, too. We just haven't gotten quite that far yet with the childrearing. And no, I wouldn't want my husband to actually tuck his gun into his waistline but I thought it would make a good visual.
As far as the girls dressing like whores these days, it's really sad. It's really sad that some of these girls walk around their churches and youth groups dressed like this. It's sad that some take their dress code cues from their pastor's wives, some of which dress this way. That's what gets me the most.
It is atrocious these days that most of the fashions in the stores are skimpy or tight. Even regular t-shirts made for women, while not baring midriffs, are so tight as to reveal everything underneath. You have to really search out the clothing that doesn't stick to you like glue these days. Yes, there is clothing out there that doesn't make you look like a FDLS girl that is respectable and not clingy, but it's harder to find.
No it's not completely the fashion industry's fault, but it plays a role in the problem.
Youth groups
Submitted by Wayne on Thu, 2008-07-10 08:50.
It's really sad that some of these girls walk around their churches and youth groups dressed like this.
Don't get me started on church youth groups these days. I won't let Juliana be a part of them. Even my older two, all those years ago, weren't as involved as most; and what involvement they did have, I regret. The problems in most youth groups go far beyond just poor taste in clothing. In my experience (at multiple churches), youth groups are every bit a part of the world and not holy at all.
Pastors' wives
Submitted by Wayne on Wed, 2008-07-16 12:46.
I second your disgust with pastors' wives who dress themselves (and their daughters) as whores. Looking back upon all the ministers I've known, there is indeed a disproportionate number of wives who really slut up in appearance. This is part of what I was referring to when I spoke of hypocrisy inoculating others against Christianity. I wonder how many people such ungodly women have led astray within the faith and how many have been turned away before finding the true faith. These stupid women will eventually answer for their poor leadership examples.
Funny
Submitted by Dave on Thu, 2008-07-10 07:49.
When I saw Charla's comment about the Sig, it reminded me of a quote from a movie: "Kid, if anything happens to my daughter, I have a .45 and a shovel. I doubt anyone would miss you." It would seem that both are essential parenting tools, at least if you have girls.
If you're a whore
If you actually are a whore and not a Christian, then ignore all this advice. If others begin to dress more obediently, then your services may be in higher demand as lusts are no longer satiated at every turn.